A pair of
questions arise there, one obviously about artistic license and the other
somewhat imperceptible, what makes art art? Books / paintings / music and a
bevy of other endeavors are subject to the question of what is art and what is
not -- and, easily might become a matter of rabid debate.
The painting, by
the way, is an 1882 oil on canvas entitled, "Beethoven's Vision," by Austrian
painter Rudolf Hausleithner. There are individuals who, I would wager, never
have heard of Ludwig van Beethoven. If any of those are reading this and are
curious, I will be content to allow them to do their own "research."
"O Mio Babbino Caro" vs. "In
the Evening"
Objective: Not
influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing
facts.
Subjective: Based
on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes or opinions.
Art: The expression or
application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form
such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for
their beauty or emotional power.
Those are definitions of those three
words as found in the Oxford English and Spanish Dictionary.
When I was a college boy, I
ran across a characterization for art as defined by the Old Greeks. Simply, "art
is the creation of beauty." Realizing that no matter how objective we think we
are, most of us become more and more subjective the older we become and the
more experience we gather. The Old Greek definition was good for me back then
and continues to be today -- mostly subjective creature that I am ....
As often is said, "One
individual's fantasy is another individual's reality" and "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Moving the same
propositions to the world of art forms the question of who has the ability and
the authority to say what art is and what is not?
I am rather judgmental and
opinionated about many things, including what is art and what is not, and
freely admit it. I also like to argue about it .... whoops, I mean I like to discuss it ....
Here are two pieces of music
about love for illustrative purposes and, hopefully, discussion.:
"O Mio Babbino Caro / Oh my
dear papa" is a soprano aria from the 1918 opera "Gianni Schicchi" by Giacomo
Puccini and sung here in traditional Italian by Anna Netrebko ....
"In the Evening" is a piece
composed by John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page and
Robert Plant for their rock band Led Zeppelin. It is performed here by Page
and Plant and a host of accomplices (hmmmm .... accompanists, including an
Egyptian orchestra) in Detroit in 1995 ....
Is one art and the other not?
If so, why or why not? Are both art? Or neither? I am not posing these questions to be mean, but out of plain and simple curiosity. Musical distinctions often appear to stem from class distinctions and since social dissimilarities are supposedly fading into nonexistence, I am genuinely curious to learn why we think what we think.
Somehow, this seems like a good time for me to excuse myself for a day or two or three .... later, baby ....
13 comments:
I like to believe I'm a fairly open-minded, objective person. Being judgmental (or trying NOT to be) is something I've worked on a lot in the past decade or so. I'm always willing to listen to another's point of view and try not to fault them for it. Even if they're wrong! (That was meant to be a joke... I think) I've found it can make things difficult when I can see both sides to a situation. This probably makes me sound wishy-washy... but there are things in life on which I hold firm opinions, seldom swaying in belief, even when offered differing ideas.
As for art and beauty: Totally subjective and all in the eye/ear of the beholder. I enjoyed both musical selections, but prefer In the Evening. Actually, I prefer the studio version of the song, but that's neither here nor there.
Good evening Mr.Fram
Greetings from Norway!
What a great post! I even had to google this painter..So beautiful painting ! I wonder what Beethoven thought.Was it his new symphony or was he sorry that he had lost his hearing? May be he hoped for the gods they would help him .He could see and hear the angles playing in his mind but invisible for us What a terrible father he had who gave him the beat in the ear.Beethoven has made a lot of music.He differs by Mozart's mood to a lighter one .It was probably time to go from the classical period to the -romantic ..Also something funny about Robert the painter .As brother of the Emperor, Rudolph was able to gain access for Beethoven to the highest salons in Vienna. Rudolph was himself a first-class musician. He was an excellent pianist and competent composer. He was the only pupil Beethoven ever took on as a student of composition.
The music is excellent! I really like " Mio bambino mio"..I found out that the song actually belongs to Soprano Frances ALDA: O mio babbino caro (1919) from the opera Gianni Schicchi (1918) Very nice! But.I have probably always interpreted the text wrong. I thought it was a love song from mother to child. Art is a common term for man-made phenomena that are made to decorate and to share an experience, story or feeling. And we all are different so many different tastes.Yes very subjective.Beauty and art is as you say, in the eye of the beholder.
Here in Bergen in Norway it looks like the dreaded naturegod Hurakan has visited us.It is raining and windy and the best place is to be inside.Watching a film about nature "The hurricane, A wind odyessy" with the words of the poet Victor Hugo told by Paloma Garcia Martens https://youtu.be / BTAqxIhsyHE
Take care and really really liked this classical post
Anita
Beginning at the end, I prefer "Evening," as well, and this version is my preferred among all I have seen/heard for a variety of reasons, all involving eye/ear and, in this instance, presence. I had press credentials and was close to the action, in a manner of speaking, which has been the case for a few concerts.
I have no consistency regarding live vs. "canned" performances. There are times I think seeing a song live makes it special and other times ruins it, and the same is true with recorded versions.
Journalists are supposed to be objective and I always have attempted to be to the best of my ability and tried to see beyond the emotions and the beliefs of any individuals involved. That written, I think I did my best work as an opinion writer and editorial page editor and definitely enjoyed it the most. Looking for "unintended consequences" certainly was a useful trait later after becoming a policy analyst and often is the "missing link" among politicians.
I cannot recall ever knowing what you studied in college or if you had a career outside the home, but judging "objectively" on your reply here, I think you would have been an excellent journalist, Kelly ....
Take care and stay safe and be happy ....
You have left me trailing in the dust, Anita. I know absolutely nothing about the Rudolf Hausleithner family or any particulars regarding his connections to Ludwig van Beethoven or to this "vision painting" other than it pertains to the maestro and his Ninth Symphony and its "Ode to Joy." Beethoven's vision, expressed through the Ninth, was a utopian view of the future with "on earth peace and good will toward men," to borrow from the Bible.
Neither was I aware of Frances Alda singing the song, but I did listen to an old recording of her performing it. I recall the song from the film, "A Room with a View," which I remember mostly because of Maggie Smith and the scenery.
You did not mention Jimmy Page and Robert Plant and their Egyptian "accomplices" doing "In the Evening." It is one of three or four Led Zeppelin pieces I would qualify as art. In the broadest sense, I suppose one could consider the band's entire repertoire of compositions to form art, just as one could label all of Vincent van Gogh's paintings to be art. Rightly or wrongly, I am a bit pickier than to do that in a blanket fashion without a thorough going over ....
So, Miss Bergen, to you I also say take care and stay safe and be happy .... and, it would be sweet to hear you sing "O Mio Babbino Caro" in Norwegian or in Italian or in Spanish .... sort of teasing, but you should at least hum a few notes ....
Design and Housing... back in the day when we still used a drafting board and t-square to work. I should have gone one step further and gotten an architecture degree. I ended up only putting my education to use by designing a couple of houses, including the one in which we live. I worked in banking (trusts & estates) for awhile before finally "retiring" to be a stay-at-home mom.
I think I could have enjoyed being a book editor.
Design and Housing .... creative and practical in the same breath.
My own time with a drafting board and a t-square was more often used for homework projects other than for drawing plans. My "informal step-father" was a draftsman and I had access to all his tools of the trade.
The closest I came to book editing was helping a "local hockey legend" write his memoirs (which were published) and editing "legends from Crazy Horse Clan" turned in weekly by an elderly member of the Lower Brule Sioux Tribe for a voluntary writing class I operated for inmates while working for the South Dakota corrections department. To my amazement, he actually got some published in book form after his release.
I did enjoy both experiences, but found it easier to work with "news-types" than with "creative-types."
Thank you, Kelly, for your return and your "update" .... I still think you could have been a marvelous journalist ....
What everyone perceives as art and how art speaks is a personal matter.
Our Personality and interest in art affects how we experience it.
The taste of art / music can change with age. Choice also which art area
wants to Invest time.
Rock can also be left out if your ears can’t stand the loud music.
I would also say that what we publish here on blogistan or elsewhere
not always necessarily your own music that you listen to.
I choose a lot of music to fit the content of my blog posts.
Sometimes the choice is influenced by what season, sometimes the colors, sometimes finding a certain mood.
Why argue about things where there is neither right nor wrong opinion.
Let’s talk about the beauty of art but not art needs to be beautiful, it’s enough when
the Senses and emotions of each experiencer awaken to experience.
Art is of great importance to our well-being in many ways.
O Mio Babbino Caro is appealing to me, I enjoy listening to it.
In The Evening is also a great song.
I just listened to both songs again. To my ears and my imagination, they both are art. What surprises me about "O Mio Babbino Caro" is how earthy the lyrics are .... but then, I remember that Giacomo Puccini essentially is a composer of the 20th Century and, at the time of this particular opera, Italy had been engaged in the "war to end all wars."
I also think this is a song in which melody overpowers lyrics ....
My posts almost always have a common link between the illustration and the words and the video, although the linkage might be obscured and "reading between the lines" sometimes is required. Like you, variations can influence my choices and not all videos are music.
I am not sure I agree with your statement: "Why argue about things where there is neither right nor wrong opinion."
While I agree that there is neither a right nor a wrong opinion regarding art, I cannot come to terms with the notion that any "expression or application of human creative skill and imagination .... producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power" should be considered art. I guess I am a bit too narrow-minded to accept such a blanket definition.
In a sense, it is like a philosophical debate over what is good and what is bad, an example being another cliché: One individual's terrorist is another individual's freedom fighter.
Another thought: I define art as the creation of beauty. I define woman as the presence of beauty.
Acknowledging that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I want to point out that I see both physical and intellectual beauty in every woman. It might require time to discover, but I always find something. It might be subtle, such as in the curve of her nose or the way she smiles; it might be in her mannerisms or in the books she reads. I am not always successful in finding beauty in things which are called art. I might try to explain this better and more thoroughly in a post ....
Subjective, of course, but such is the destination life has brought me to -- and, I readily admit others have their own viewpoints which I might not agree with, but still respect and accept their right to have.
It always is a pleasure to discover you have paid me a visit, Liplatus. Thank you, for coming and for commenting and for expressing your thoughts about art .... happy summer ....
Misunderstandings are easily created when the text is extracted in the desired way.
When I say "there is neither right nor wrong ..."
It's about these two music videos, everyone has the right to like what they want without being a less artistic choice. :)
For me, both are art.
Yes, art, defined as art, has its limitations. The subject is so broad that I will not start writing.
More expert information about art is available online for those who want information.
It is, as you mention, what is good for one can be harmful to another.
Happy summer!
The world is mostly composed of the color grey (or gray, as I would spell it), but I have a tendency to put many things in a black or a white framework, an "either / or" category. This equals a song or a painting or a whatever either is art or it is not. That is what I was attempting to do in the instance of these two particular songs. Liking or disliking them were not part of the equation; enjoying them or not enjoying them were not part of the equation. Only the question of art or not art formed the entire equation. The other elements might overlap and often do, as is the case of these two particular songs. They both fall into all three categories: Art, yes; like, yes; enjoy, yes. That is not always the case with a song or a painting or a whatever.
Also, I think most of us modify our meanings of words in our own languages while those using another native language tend to use dictionary definitions regarding English. I recall referring to a young lady whose language was Polish as "silly." She felt insulted and became angry, assuming I meant she "lacked common sense or judgment or was absurd and foolish." What I meant when I said "silly" was that I thought she could be "funny" and had a "good sense of humor."
Thank you, Liplatus, many times over. I enjoy very much "talking" with you .... you cause me to pause and to look more deeply into how I use my words ....
Beautiful blog
Please read my post
I went to your blog and found it fascinating, Rajani Rehana ....
I have been roaming the earth hoping to find the answers to questions such as those you pose. The journey is interesting/educational/enjoyable, but the answers are elusive and, in all likelihood, forever will be ....
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